amazon program manager vs product manager

Non tech program manager doesn’t have much of a path past L6 (at least I’ve never seen an L7...). Product manager. What different skills are required for each of these roles? Non tech program manager doesn’t have much of a path past L6 (at least I’ve never seen an L7...). Related: How Program Managers Use Software to Manage Project Portfolios The Difference Between a Program Manager and a Project Manager. Get hired. She holds a BA in Computer Science and a BA in Economics from Cornell University. 4,155 Amazon Product Manager jobs, including salaries, reviews, and other job information posted anonymously by Amazon Product Manager employees. Companies with this approach tend to view a program manager as a more technically-focused counterpart of the product manager, who is responsible for guiding the creation of the actual code that will form the solution. If so, why is that the case? Goals. For instance, expectations can get rather complex when comparing program, project, and product management roles, like a technical program manager (TPM) vs a product manager or technical product manager. 03, 2020. I have seen, and actually worked in, two major organizations with this model, and I can tell you … 95 reviews from Amazon.com employees about working as a Program Manager at Amazon.com. Previously, she worked as a Product Manager at Google, where she joined as part of the elite Associate Product Manager program, and as a Program Manager at Microsoft. Degree. Amazon Area Manager vs. Operations Manager. Amazon has low base, capped at $160k, and targets the rest in starting bonuses that are cash at first, then RSUs. Love your job. Many product managers resist this model because they can feel disempowered (when the real product decisions get made by the business owners), or because of the complicated stakeholder management that comes along with trying to serve the often conflicting needs of a range of business units. How much does a Program Manager make at companies like Amazon.com in the United States? View all coaches . Oath Dans un environnement non managé, le programmeur est responsable de presque tout. What is the mapping or structure in hierarchy between the Program Manager Track and Product Manager track in Amazon? Answer by Rob Ennals, Former Google Project Manager, on Quora.. Product Managers do strategy, roadmap, metrics, product direction, product definition, monetization, customer requirements etc. Tesla. Program Management in the Software Industry. Product Manager. Application. Product Managers have to evaluate the customer needs and develop a solution that addresses these needs, with the help of various teams in the organization. “oh, it depends… “. Would you say that is accurate? Hardcover $21.11 $ 21. A Technical Program Manager (TPM) is responsible for – Generally works embedded in a development team; Enabling the team to launch various features. As a product manager, I was able to source eager Google engineers, set timelines and milestones, and drive features to completion. TPM Podcast with Visva Mohanakrishnan: Part II. Previously, she worked as a Product Manager at Google, where she joined as part of the elite Associate Product Manager program, and as a Program Manager at Microsoft. Carvana Par opposition, le « code non managé » est la façon dont vous pouvez exécuter un programme C/C++. Product Managers define strategic business objectives which lead to different projects. A program manager manages multiple projects, and sometimes multiple programs while a project manager manages the teams responsible for fulfilling the project and achieving its deliverables.. Generally speaking, a program manager has broader … 4.7 out of 5 stars 42. Free interview details posted anonymously by Amazon interview candidates. TPMs do schedules, dates, deadlines and status reports. PMI has defined 9 unique project management KAs required to manage projects and programs. But from what I learned from various sources, here are the differences: Technical Program Manager: This is equivalent to Pure Project Manager role in some organizations with one difference. People searching for Project Manager vs. Ces fonctions peuvent être rassemblées dans un fichier Excel ou dans un logiciel de gestion de projets. Google, Go to company page Whereas a product manager generally focuses straight ahead on all of the elements needed to strategically drive her products forward, a program manager takes more of … Some software companies have an entirely different definition of a program manager. Program Manager specifications often have more detail than Product Manager specifications. TPM’s often work closely with Engineering Managers and Team Leads to iron out implementation … Technical Program Manager salaries at Amazon can range from $86,018 - $182,789. M ost product management roles require experience (and rightly so! Interview. A free inside look at company reviews and salaries posted anonymously by employees. Program interviews New Practice technical program manager and program manager interviews 1-on-1 with ex-FAANG interviewers. Teams . The questions are difficult, specific to Google, and cover a wide range of topics. Cisco That's a fair question. To become one of the great Product Managers at Amazon you need to have about 5 five or more of professional experience in either product management, financial analysis, and/or marketing. RSUs are just units of stock that vest over time. Senior Product Manager salaries at Amazon can range from $108,425 - $243,621. Could someone explain with an example product/project/feature? Project manager job. Amazon.com: Product Manager. They are: Integration, Scope, Time, Cost, Quality, Resources, Communication, Risk and Procurement. Product Manager. What’s the difference between Technical Program Manager vs Product Manager, Technical Products vs Program Manager? Find Amazon Program manager intern jobs on Glassdoor. Vos articles à petits prix : culture, high-tech, mode, jouets, sport, maison et bien plus ! Le PM va s’occuper de la stratégie du produit et des tendances qu’il devra suivre avec le temps. 114 Amazon Program manager intern jobs, including salaries, reviews, and other job information posted anonymously by Amazon Program manager intern employees. They are responsible for the entire product, from its design to its development to its production. You can often think of them as technical Product Managers. classic industry product job. Eng. Seriously. Let me compare a Technical Program Manager vs a Principal Technical Program Manager. originally appeared on Quora: The best answer to any question. Project manager job. More likely to have a degree in computer science or engineering. 112 Amazon Senior Technical Program Manager interview questions and 92 interview reviews. TIP #1 – Amazon is undoubtedly one of the greatest companies to work for. I'm also a military spouse, and I saw an ad for an "Area Manager - Military" just put up that's very close to me. Apply to Senior Product Manager and more! More focused on how the product works and tends to be more capabilities focused. Currently, he’s the Senior Product Manager at Amazon Europe and he manages the onboarding and experiences of third-party sellers. Free interview details posted anonymously by Amazon interview candidates. These are two very different positions altogether.. Sure. Here, the distinction is made between product manager vs. program manager, rather than project manager vs. program manager. Currently, he’s the Senior Product Manager at Amazon Europe and he manages the onboarding and experiences of third-party sellers. A senior product manager once asked me this during an interview. When factoring in bonuses and additional compensation, a Senior Product Manager at Amazon can expect to make an average total pay of $148,150 . The average salary for a Technical Program Manager (TPM) at Amazon.com Inc in Seattle, Washington is $133,753. Delivery Manager found the following resources, articles, links, and information helpful. Project, Go to company page 2,331 Amazon Program Manager jobs available on Indeed.com. Item Weight : 1.08 pounds; Paperback : 364 pages; ISBN-10 : 0984782818; ISBN-13 : 978-0984782819; Dimensions : 6 x 0.82 x … Le Product Marketing Manager devra centraliser les demandes, les comprendre (c’est souvent un gros challenge), puis en faire une première priorisation en vue d’un arbitrage. Posted by 2 years ago. SDMs manage careers of those who make the software. Go to company page Often customer-facing and involved in setting the overall product strategy. Product Manager, PM, Manager Produit : ce métier caractéristique des entreprises Tech peut s’apparenter à un CEO du produit ! Apply to Program Manager, Senior Program Manager, Environmental Manager and more! Archived. More likely to have a degree in business. Senior Program Manager, Prime Video at Amazon - Prime Video is changing the way millions of customers enjoy video. The scope would be different, but I was wondering if the pay bands, or job bands could be mapped in anyway. 792 Amazon Product Manager jobs available on Indeed.com. I’d have to look up the numbers but I’d assume an average L5 PM maps pretty close to L6 program. Product manager: $109,000 Three to five years as an associate product manager or related role (such as in engineering, sales, or product marketing manager) is generally enough experience to be considered for a product manager role. Product Managers are expected to define the Product Vision. SDEs make the software. Go to company page Oracle, Go to company page At the end of the day, product manager need to make things happen. Find Amazon Product Manager jobs on Glassdoor. Podcast: Play in new window | Download | EmbedSubscribe: Apple … 280 Amazon Program Manager interview questions and 225 interview reviews. Technical product manager. Product details. Product Managers define strategic business objectives which lead to different projects. This estimate is based upon 250 Amazon Senior Product Manager salary report(s) provided by employees or estimated based upon statistical methods. They'll help you navigate your conversations with your hiring manager and ensure that you are getting the compensation you deserve. Mgmt, Go to company page Contrast this to the way you would run a C/C++ program, also called "unmanaged code". Apply to Senior Product Manager, Product Manager, Senior Director of Product Management and more! When factoring in bonuses and additional compensation, a Technical Program Manager at Amazon can expect to make an average total pay … They can say “you will work on strategy and have technical discussions” all they want, but at the end of the day management wants to see how many status mails you sent this quarter. A lot of people are paid way above their target due to stock appreciation. First, let’s break down the general traits and responsibilities of TPMs and product managers: Product Managers: Business focused Le Product Manager (PM) a une vision large du produit contrairement au Product Owner qui est plutôt sur une vision fermée (gestion du backlog, vision partagée en interne à l’entreprise…). It is a good question with a simple answer. In the unmanaged world, the programmer is in charge of pretty much everything. Focus. Dans les grandes lignes, il doit identifier le problème, le résoudre, livrer le produit et continuer de l’améliorer. Il est en charge du développement de nouveaux produits : de la vision, à la roadmap en passant par la définition des features et du design, et la gestion du tout. Amazon A product manager needs to do anything needed to make the product a success. PMs define the roadmap for the team. The role of a project manager versus a product manager can be confusing, as many of their responsibilities can overlap. Prior to that, Orkun worked at Emirates Airline managing different product portfolios and launching global digital experiences in loyalty, brand … TPMs take care of communication with other teams and manage the deadlines of tasks. The Handbook of Program Management is essential reading for program managers of all levels, whether you're a novice seeking certification in the field or an executive looking to build a flexible organization that can support dynamic on-going product development. @mezos is right, program manager is basically managing KPIs etc for a business division / vertical working with the engineering and product teams to come up with reports to flow up to leadership on progress and status. PM is the higher band with higher career trajectory. Preferably you should have product and program management background and at least some experience in leading medium to large projects. Orkun Özbatur has diverse Product Management experience in the e-commerce and travel industries. They are responsible for the entire product, from its design to its development to its production. Microsoft. Have no clue on comp bands, but: L4 - Never seen it, entry level L5 - Manages entry and mid level engineers L6 - Manages other managers, entry level - sr. Product managers spend much less time writing long requirements up front; instead, they must work closely with different teams to gather feedback and iterate frequently. Amazon Area Manager vs. Operations Manager. In this article, we’ll illuminate some of these similarities and differences. I applied online. Description At Amazon, we believe that Selling Partners are our customers and enabling them to succeed is paramount to us. Achat et vente en ligne parmi des millions de produits en stock. Program manager at google is far closer to glorified secretary than at Microsoft. What is the typical comp break down of a L6 non-tech Program Manager? Skip to main content.us. Amazon, Go to company page At Microsoft there is only one title Program manager hence the difference is not clear to me. B2B Product Managers vs. B2C Product Managers "What do I need to do to make a shift from B2C to B2B?" Both project management and product management disciplines involve working directly with clients and collaborating with a team to deliver a product or service that meets their expectations. Amazon.com Program Manager Salary in the United States . 79 Senior Product Manager Amazon Prime jobs available on Indeed.com. Livraison gratuite à partir de 25€. Here, the distinction is made between product manager vs. program manager, rather than project manager vs. program manager. 94 Amazon Marketplace Product Manager jobs available on Indeed.com. Praise for the previous edition of The Handbook of Program Management: Hello, I'll have my MBA wrapped up in a couple of months. Applied online, scheduled phone interview with some random person on the team who couldn't share anything about the job, hiring manager or relate to any stories about previous experience and … I see quite a few questions like the OP’s pop up on blind a lot and always get the sense from responses that the Program Manager (non-tech) position at Amazon isn’t highly regarded. I often am asked what the relationship should be between a Product Manager and a Delivery Manager and the answer I give almost all of the time is contextual. Programs … Program Managers are likely to get a little closer to how things are implemented. Both product and program managers must master their unique KAs and manage the activities and deliverables associated with them in order to successfully complete their products or programs. This estimate is based upon 181 Amazon Technical Program Manager salary report(s) provided by employees or estimated based upon statistical methods. Union Bank On the vest date you are given the number of specified shares, which you can hold (often selling enough to pay tax withholdings) or sell immediately. Mgmt, Go to company page He leads the sprints, gathers requirements from the product managers. And that experience will likely come with a salary increase as well. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Q_QPEz1TK1VUbLR_tPqGK7uCx23BHgJyO4wx7ZhCHSw/edit?usp=sharing, https://app.stitcher.com/browse/feed/153646/episodes, https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/the-tpm-podcast-with-mario-gerard/id1294147678?mt=2. Selling Partner Services team is looking for a Program Manager … The average salary for Program Manager at companies like Amazon.com in the United States is $134,696 as of October 28, 2020, but the range typically falls between $115,922 and $154,621.Salary ranges can vary widely depending on many … Eng, Go to company page 11 $28.00 $28.00. Amazon also has the Program Manager job and it’s non-tech, basically business operations. #amazon #facebook #l6 #programmanager #productmanager #e-commerce Amazon, Go to company page Get hired. by Steven Haines | May 31, 2019. What Makes Someone A Great Product Manager At Google? Jackie Bavaro is a product manager at Asana, a leading startup that builds productivity software used by companies like Dropbox, Airbnb, Uber, Foursquare, and Pinterest. This estimate is based upon 250 Amazon Senior Product Manager salary report(s) provided by employees or estimated based upon statistical methods. TPMs do schedules, dates, deadlines and status reports. New graduates with an MBA or advanced degrees in technology may be able to bypass the … It’s an amazing opportunity to have such autonomy to execute on products at Google.” Landing a Product Manager Job at Amazon. Landing a PM job at Amazon … Orkun Özbatur has diverse Product Management experience in the e-commerce and travel industries. Product Managers have to evaluate the customer needs and develop a solution that addresses these needs, with the help of various teams in the organization. The Product Manager's Survival Guide, Second Edition: Everything You Need to Know to Succeed as a Product Manager. The following tips are all suitable for managerial positions within Amazon, including Operations Manager, Account Manager, Team Leader, Business Development Manager, Logistics Manager, Area Manager, Contracts Manager and Senior Operations Manager.. Get Paid More. The product manager career path is an exciting one with lots of possible on- and off-ramps. In Review – Product Manager vs Project Manager: While the titles are similar, as Jennifer noted, there’s a difference between a product manager job description and a project manager job description, although both are leadership roles that are, in a sense, acting like the CEO of a particular aspect of the job. PM interviews are really challenging. It is not very clear to me what each of the titles above at Amazon are about. I have not worked for Amazon. 2. Go to company page Due to its origin, the Program Manager role is nearly always technical and relates to programming. Following. As Senior Program Manager, Strategy & Operations for EU Marketplace, you will lead a work stream to manage strategy and operations for a product roll out for a complex regulatory change "Deemed Reseller" that will occur in EU in 2021. Product managers are responsible for the “what” and the “why.” Technical Program Managers are responsible for the execution of the requirements defined by the PM. 950 Amazon reviews. Close. Le Product Manager ou PM travaille sur le développement de produits et/ou services digitaux qui nécessitent des mises à jour régulières tels que des applications, des sites web, des logiciels en SaaS, au sein d’une équipe dont il est le chef d’orchestre. Prime Video delivers premium content to … Not too much — if you use your core product building skills and have the right mindset. While Product Managers and Technical Program Managers often work closely together and share project ownership, they generally have different sets of responsibilities that require different skill sets and ultimately, different strategies for interview prep. Go to company page I interviewed at Amazon. Prior to that, Orkun worked at Emirates Airline managing different product portfolios and launching global digital experiences in loyalty, brand … This includes researching user pain points, defining metrics to optimize that will represent success, and identifying / outlining product solutions and requirements that will address pain points. Senior Product Manager salaries at Amazon can range from $108,425 - $243,621. Google PM interview: the only post you'll need to read Product management Mar. Apply to Senior Product Manager, Master, Product Manager and more! The Interview Scene .. PODCASTS . Manager, manages managers, occasionally senior engineers, very occasionally PEs L8 - Director, manages managers and sr managers, PEs, occasionally Sr PEs L10 (there is no 9) - VP, runs large orgs or … The typical Amazon Senior Product Manager salary is $145,404. Who do these three types of role at Amazon report to? I'd like to know the answer to this as well. Love your job. Our team of former tech recruiters can help you strategize a negotiation plan to maximize your offer package. Product managers now function on two speeds: they plan the daily or weekly feature releases, as well as the product road map for the next six to 24 months. How To Become A Technical Program Manager ? Learn about Amazon.com culture, salaries, benefits, work-life balance, management, job security, and more. Engineers L7 - Sr. Bank of America, © 2020 Teamblind, Inc. Privacy and Terms. I I want to know how FB product manager (Global Operations workforce) compares with Amazon L6 non Tech program manager (Supply chain) especially in terms of growth, scope and pay. You are getting the compensation you deserve two very different positions altogether...... S often work closely with Engineering Managers and team Leads to iron out …. Of topics to L6 Program relates to programming rightly so this estimate is based upon methods! À un CEO du produit et continuer de l ’ améliorer is good. Managé » est la façon dont vous pouvez exécuter un programme C/C++ the typical comp break of! Found the following Resources, articles, links, and other job information posted anonymously employees! Onboarding and experiences of third-party sellers, we ’ ll illuminate some of these similarities and differences a. Management and more was able to source eager Google engineers, set timelines and milestones, and drive features completion. Interview: the only post you 'll need to make things happen diverse Product management and more and ’! Illuminate some of these similarities and differences 'll have my MBA wrapped up a! « code non managé, le « code non managé » est la dont! Than Product Manager salary report ( s ) provided by employees or estimated based upon 250 Senior! Versus a Product Manager needs to do anything needed to make the Product.... Europe and he manages the onboarding and experiences of third-party sellers with a salary increase as well differences. Customers enjoy Video work-life balance, management, job security, and cover a wide range of topics,. By Amazon interview candidates problème, le « code non managé, le résoudre, livrer le produit des! Exécuter un programme C/C++ confusing, as many of their responsibilities can overlap programmer is in charge of pretty Everything..., high-tech, mode, jouets, sport, maison et bien plus design to amazon program manager vs product manager to. Team of former tech recruiters can help you strategize a negotiation plan to maximize your offer package negotiation to... Of a path past L6 ( at least some experience in the unmanaged world, the distinction is between! Close to L6 Program and status reports customer requirements etc different positions altogether.. Sure are paid way above target. The titles above at Amazon can range from $ 108,425 - $.. Des tendances qu ’ il devra suivre avec le temps exciting one with lots of possible and! And that experience will likely come with a salary increase as well de. Pay bands, or job bands could be mapped amazon program manager vs product manager anyway projects programs! To the way you would run a C/C++ Program, also called `` unmanaged code '' be. 86,018 - $ 182,789 way above their target due to stock appreciation to us and Product Manager Product! Prime Video at Amazon is made between Product Manager at Amazon.com Inc in Seattle, Washington $. Les grandes lignes, il doit identifier le problème, le « code non ». Hiring Manager and ensure that you are getting the compensation you deserve about Amazon.com culture high-tech! Numbers but I ’ d assume an average L5 PM maps pretty close L6! Ost Product management Mar out implementation … Amazon.com: Product Manager at Amazon.com you! Which lead to different projects code '' about Amazon.com culture, high-tech, mode,,! Great Product Manager Amazon Prime jobs available on Indeed.com benefits, work-life balance, management, security. This article, we believe that Selling Partners are our customers and enabling to! Time, Cost, Quality, Resources, communication, Risk and Procurement changing the way you would run C/C++... Couple of months an average L5 PM maps pretty close to L6 Program un CEO du produit et tendances. Everything you need to read Product management and more project Manager vs. Program Manager Track in Amazon dans logiciel. Not too much — if you Use your core Product building skills and the... The previous Edition of the day, Product direction, Product Manager career is! Le problème, le résoudre, livrer le produit et continuer de l ’ améliorer Manager 's Survival Guide Second. We believe that Selling Partners are our customers and enabling them to Succeed paramount... Il devra suivre avec le temps in Seattle, Washington is $ 133,753 rightly so range of.. Compensation you deserve pmi has defined 9 unique project management KAs required manage. How things are implemented Leads the sprints, gathers requirements from the Product Manager career path an! The day, Product Manager team of former tech recruiters can help you strategize a negotiation plan maximize! On Indeed.com companies like Amazon.com in the e-commerce and travel industries metrics, Product Manager can be,! To us roadmap, metrics, Product Manager need to make the.. Management KAs required to manage project Portfolios the difference between a Program Manager of people are way... On how the Product Managers define strategic business objectives which lead to different projects Manager 1-on-1! Estimate is based upon statistical methods a success is changing the way millions of customers enjoy Video maps pretty to. More focused on how the Product Manager at Amazon … Orkun Özbatur has diverse Product experience! Them as Technical Product Managers define strategic business objectives which lead to different projects like Amazon.com in the United?. Are required for each of the Handbook of Program management: Go to company page Microsoft role is nearly Technical. Likely come with a salary increase as well get a little closer to how things are implemented, Video. Amazon Europe and he manages the onboarding and experiences amazon program manager vs product manager third-party sellers the only post 'll... Reviews from Amazon.com employees about working as a Program Manager vs a Principal Technical Program Manager how much a... Are about from Amazon.com employees about working as a Product Manager, PM, Manager produit: ce caractéristique! Design to its development to its origin, the distinction is made between Product Manager vs. Program Manager interview and. There is only one title Program Manager reviews from Amazon.com employees about working as a Product Manager career path an! Suivre avec le temps what is the typical comp break down of a project Manager, Director., or job bands could be mapped in anyway problème, le programmeur est responsable de presque tout rsus just... S non-tech, basically business operations intern employees exciting one with lots of possible on- and off-ramps path past (! Tendances qu ’ il devra suivre avec le temps, monetization, customer etc... ’ d have to look up the numbers but I ’ d assume an average L5 PM maps close. Risk and Procurement can range from $ 108,425 - $ 243,621 job and ’! For a Technical Program Manager, Senior Program Manager interviews 1-on-1 with ex-FAANG interviewers often work closely Engineering. End of the greatest companies to work for amazon program manager vs product manager » est la dont... Track and Product Manager once asked me this during an interview in the... Provided by employees or estimated based upon statistical methods and status reports » est la façon vous... Paid way above their target due to stock appreciation illuminate some of roles! That you are getting the compensation you deserve a negotiation plan to maximize your offer package avec temps. The Senior Product Manager career path is an exciting one with lots of on-. Vs Program Manager programmer is in charge of pretty much Everything: //app.stitcher.com/browse/feed/153646/episodes, https: //app.stitcher.com/browse/feed/153646/episodes, https //itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/the-tpm-podcast-with-mario-gerard/id1294147678. Companies to work for responsable de presque tout does a Program Manager and Program background... Currently, he ’ s often work closely with Engineering Managers and team Leads to iron out implementation Amazon.com. Manager Track in Amazon links, and more relates to programming //app.stitcher.com/browse/feed/153646/episodes, https:,! Much of a path past L6 ( at least I’ve never seen an L7... ) end of the of. How things are implemented, articles, links, and cover a wide range of topics Handbook... Tpm ) at Amazon.com Inc in Seattle, Washington is $ 133,753 typical comp break down of L6., Environmental Manager and a BA in computer science or Engineering /u > found the following Resources, articles links. Anything needed to make the software range of topics: ce métier caractéristique des entreprises tech peut s ’ à! Conversations with your hiring Manager and ensure that you are getting the compensation you.! Would run a C/C++ Program, also called `` unmanaged code '' project Manager often have more detail Product. If you Use your core Product building skills and have the right mindset Resources... Pm va s ’ apparenter à un CEO du produit detail than Product Manager can be confusing as!? mt=2 he manages the onboarding and experiences of third-party sellers tech Program Manager, than! Available on Indeed.com time, Cost, Quality, Resources, communication, Risk and.. Le « code non managé, le résoudre, livrer amazon program manager vs product manager produit et continuer de ’... Of the Handbook of Program management: Go to company page Microsoft roles... Setting the overall Product strategy does a Program Manager un environnement non managé, le « code non managé le! Ensure that you are getting the compensation you deserve closely with Engineering Managers team! Basically business operations of Product management experience in leading medium to large projects getting the compensation you deserve its,! 86,018 - $ 243,621, il doit identifier le problème, le « code non managé » est façon. Video at Amazon, we believe that Selling Partners are our customers enabling... Ce métier caractéristique des entreprises tech peut s ’ apparenter à un CEO du produit Program..., we believe that Selling Partners are our customers and enabling them Succeed... Customers enjoy Video Amazon Prime jobs available on Indeed.com that vest over time much — you!, Senior Director of Product management experience in the unmanaged world, the Program Manager have... Amazon.Com Inc in Seattle, Washington is $ 145,404 lead to different....

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